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ARTICLE SUMMARY

Should all foreign criminals be booted out of Britain?

A JUDGE made a humiliating attack yesterday on Labour’s “por­ous borders”.

FOREIGN CRIMINALS

23.05.08, 10:36am

Are we to believe that, Morals, dignity, Pride in ones Country, reverence for Christianity belong in some distant past, well we are if we listen to CFB!
Well Sir/Madam I believe it is you that belongs in some distant era, let me think, yes Neanderthal .
You seem to think that because you do not believe in anything except perhaps the mighty Blair and his followers that it is we and not your fellow neanderthals that are out of step.
It does not take a genius (which is fortunate for me) to know that there is something very wrong in todays BRITAIN and I believe it is because of people like you trying to destroy the very makeup of this country with the constant ridicule and dirision of any disatisfaction with the way this goverment is destroying our society.

• Posted by: songbird • Report Comment

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THE FOREIGN CRIMINALS ARE LAUGHING AT US

20.05.08, 7:31pm

Of course foreign criminals should be kicked out of Britain. This disgraceful government is weak and ineffectual and unable to say "Go" to these undesirables who have no place here. Why we have to spend so much money taking these people through the courts so that the lawyers can make yet more money is a joke. All it requires is to put them on a plane. In fact it would be cheaper for the Government to fill 2 or 3 planes and send the whole lot of failed assylum seekers and undesirables back to where they came from.

• Posted by: Globetrottinggranny • Report Comment

VEGANCOMMY

16.05.08, 11:58am

We all have the ability to think for ourselves and dress how we please,yes I was a teenager once., when I paid for mu own clothes, I made my own decisions,as for your friend in the pub if she objected why not get out and find another job,did she have to dress to boost his profits......her choice

• Posted by: Maggie • Report Comment

MARIGOLD

14.05.08, 3:44pm

thanks for your previous post. you may have misunderstood what i was getting at though, as you seem to think that i think that the drift back to medivalism is a good thing.

rest assured, i do not think that is the case. it is all rubbish in my opinion. and that goes for not only the rise in quack medicines, conspiracy theories, but also the rise of religious fundamentalism on all sides (muslim, christian, jewish).

my point was, that we are doing our best to encourage a rise in islamic fundamentalism through our daft foreign policies. and we are doing our best to create mieval style social divisions in our society by, for example, going back to this 'christains vs muslims' nonsense. In an era where we are all increasingly connected internationally, as well as more being diverse societies internally, now is the time we need to adopt rational, secular viewpoints and move away from superstition, and nonsense.

however, right now everyone seems to be happily moving headlong back into medievalism and irrationality. indeed, many on here seem happy about that trend.

• Posted by: crayfishbanker • Report Comment

'WITH 'FASHIONS' WHO ARE FORCED TO WEAR THEM?'

14.05.08, 2:40pm

I suggest you ask a teenager. There is a very big subject worth discussing regarding the social pressures that women are subjected to in terms of the way they dress. This subject includes Muslim women but is not just about them, its just that the issues for them are somewhat different.

I have met numerous women who have said about how their partners like them to wear certain types of clothes, what about the cultural pressures in the media for women to look and dress a certain way with eating disorders being a recognised side effect. I've got a friend who some years back used to work behind a bar and was told by the boss to make sure she wore something low cut on the nights whjen the rugby club was expected to be in.

• Posted by: vegancommy • Report Comment

MAGGIE HERE, I DID NOT INTRODUCE THE SUBJECT

14.05.08, 1:10pm

We apparently allow anyone in which is painfully obvious by now, but my point was about freedoms do Muslim women have the choices as women in this country have with their lives? If not why live in a country whose culture is totally different? Surely we have a right to ask without someone jumping down our throats , with 'fashions' who are forced to wear them?

• Posted by: Maggie • Report Comment

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"SLAGGING OFF MUSLIM WOMENS FASHION SENSE"

14.05.08, 12:54pm

For goodness sake what is the matter with you vegancommy.
I would love to see a comment from you that didnt involve slagging off another poster !

• Posted by: marigold • Report Comment

BY THE WAY...

14.05.08, 2:57am

I almost don't notice it happening any more but how did a thread about foreign criminals get turned into one slagging off Muslim women's fashion sense? A very clear agenda is apparent.

• Posted by: vegancommy • Report Comment

DUH YET AGAIN

14.05.08, 2:54am

'WHY IS IT ALLOWED?

Many comments deal with the inequality of Muslim women and their dress , the Sufragettes fought and died for woman's equality but we allow people to take this country back to the dark ages when it is no part of this countriy's lifestyle, it may be in Muslim countries but not here, we much prefer to have our freedom and equality for women not submission'

So whats your suggestion? Have laws that outlaw women to wear certain types of clothing? That would really impress the suffragettes I'm sure.

Believe it or not some Muslim women do choose to wear the clothes they do. It is of course true that some are put under considerable social pressures but thats often the case with all women (sometimes its called fashion and it can be equally oppressive, being forced on ever younger women and girls as you'll have seen in the news).

• Posted by: vegancommy • Report Comment

WHY IS IT ALLOWED?

13.05.08, 11:46pm

Many comments deal with the inequality of Muslim women and their dress , the Sufragettes fought and died for woman's equality but we allow people to take this country back to the dark ages when it is no part of this countriy's lifestyle, it may be in Muslim countries but not here, we much prefer to have our freedom and equality for women not submission

• Posted by: Maggie • Report Comment

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CFB

13.05.08, 4:42pm

I have read your post carefully and understand what you are saying.
I actually agree with most of it.
You are right we are turning to spiritual needs and alternative ideas in medicine especially the ayurvedic medicine that has resurfaced here in the west and has been practiced in the east for thousands of years.
I do agree about the mediaeval connection.
Islam itself and its Sharia law reminds me very much of Christianity at that time.
So here we have it CFB something we may agree on. The problem is what will this change lead to ? And how will mankind adapt ?
Mankind usually does adapt in one form or another as changes have constantly taken place since the dawn of time.
But here I am a lady of her time. The 20th and 21st centuries finding it a struggle to adapt to my changing landscape and the newcomers that live in it.

• Posted by: marigold • Report Comment

MARIGOLD

13.05.08, 10:58am

currently, the 'fundamentalist' wings of all the major religions are growing in popularity. or at least, christianity, islam and judaism. I am unsure about hindu and bhuddism and what is going on there.

but it is certianly not only islamic fundamentalism which is proving more popular. and, unsurprisingly, with the 'born again' george bush in the white house, backed by his fundamentalist christian pals, more hard line governments in israel, and the increasing popularity of fundamentalist islam in the middle east, this is a noxious cocktail which is leading us to more conflicts.

the real question to ask is 'why?'. why is fundamentalism in all its forms spreading? and that is a difficult one to answer. It seems as though we are all turning our backs on secular, rational modernity and moving back towards the middle ages. I would put the increased popularity of rubbish like homeopathy, spiritualism, belief in conspiracy theories, and 'holistic' medicine in that trend towards medievalism as well.

with regard to islam. there is plenty of evidence to show thatthe increase in radical fundamentalism is the result of two things:
1. A reaction to globalisation and consumerism (i think this goes for fundamentailist christianity as well)
2. a reaction to the foreign policies of the west and particularly the us. we can use the example of iraq to illustrate this. Prior to the invasion, under saddam hussain, iraq was a us backed dictatorship, providing 'stability'' for western interests in the region. Under this regime, iraq was officially a secular (but muslim based) country. fundamentalists were almost non-existent. after the invasion, and the gross levels of poverty and social disorganisation resulting from that, fundamentalism has risen in popularity.

in short, radicalism and fundamentalism needs 'fuel', and through policies like invasion, propping up dictatorships, and ignoring the palestinian issue, we continue to provide that fuel. deal with some of those issues, and that will take tyhe rug out from under radical fundamentalist islam.

• Posted by: crayfishbanker • Report Comment

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CFB

12.05.08, 1:24pm

I actually agree with much of your post .
But unfortuantely many muslims would not agree.
Muslims intend to and are growing in number worldwide. Some of them are also becoming more extreme. I fear this religion/ idealogy will become a dominant force in years to come.
To dismiss Islam as easily as you do may be a mistake.
Why do you keep refering to me as a reincarnation of abuela ? Especially as I hear you have had several "lives".

• Posted by: marigold • Report Comment

MARIGOLD

12.05.08, 12:17pm

in response to your question, i will give, what should be a predictible answer by now.

first, there is a difference between 'religion' and 'custom'.
not all muslim women wear robes or bhurkas or whatever. that depends on the tradition of where they come from. for example, if you walk down the streets of istanbul (and most of turkey), or cairo, or most parts of iraq (before the invasion), algeria, you see women dressed quite similar to how westerners dress.

secondly, the koran is, as i'm sure you know, not the only religion which has sexist texts. christianity, judaism, and many others have the same. and i have given you many exmaples of these texts before, especially when you were abuela, so i should not have to go through that again now.

thus, this takes us back to the original point that there is 'religion' .
then there is 'custom' or 'tradition', i.e. how religion actually gets used and interpreted in everyday life.

this goes on a spectrum from fundamentalist religion who interperate texts literally (there are islamic fundamentalists, and christian ones, and jewish ones, all on the rise at the moment). fundamentalism tends to be more popular in rural areas for all of these religions.

to secularisation, where the literal text has very little bearing on people's everyday lives. secularism being generally more popular in urban areas.

if you want to see sexist, opressive christianity in action in this century, take a trip to some of the rural areas of the united states, where christian and mormon women are made to dress a certain way, and made to participate in a very subservient roles to males.

so, back to your original point. it is ridiculous to suggest, or believe, that in a modern secular country, that your rights are in any way will be impinged upon by islam. especially considering how little of a population there is, and the fact that the ones that are here will become more secualr all the time, just like most of the christian have.

• Posted by: crayfishbanker • Report Comment

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FOREIGN CRIMINALS BE BOOTED OUT

11.05.08, 8:05pm

heck ,if the civil libertys lot think that might happen,that would leave them in a spin...of course they should be booted out.we have enough of our own grown ones.in fact they should be checked before they are allowed in...criminal record - no entry.in fact our boarders should be closed..

• Posted by: jenny • Report Comment

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